fact." again, thanks for watching us tonight. i'm bill o'reilly. please always remember that the spin stops right here. definitely looking out for it. >> sean: tonight 34 days are all that remain until the united states plunges off the so-called fiscal cliff. as the january 1st deadline looms large over washington, republican heavyweights from house speaker john boehner to majority leader eric cantor announced yet again today they're willing to make major concessions to the democrats in order to avert disaster. take a look. >> republicans are committed to continuing to work with the president to come to an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal cliff. it's one reason why we believe
that we put revenue on the table as long as it's accompanied by serious spending cuts. >> we have done our part. we have put revenues on the table. something that we dtdn't do two yearyears ago during the debt ceiling negotiations. >> sean: we'll get into what, quote, unquote, revenue really means, and whether it includes tax hikes. as you just heard from the republican leadership they're offering up real solutions on how to avoid falling often the so-called fiscal cliff. the president however still thinks he's out there on the campaign trail, in fact using the exact same class warfare that we all grew accustomed to during the election. instead of offering up a single suggestion on how to cut spending or agree to any sort of meaningful entitlement reform, he's trying to finis frighten ye american people, that there's no other alternative other than raising taxes.
watch. >> the place where we already had complete agreement right now is on middle-class taxes. as i've said before, we've got two choices. if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. >> sean: before president, if you don't lead, continue to do nothing, america's debt could continue to rise and we could easily hit $20 trillion in the coming years. i doubt very much that you need to be reminded that $6 trillion of that debt was tacked on under your watch, which is why your hypocrisy on the issue is downright laughable. here's what you, president obama, what you said about your predecessor. >> the way bush has done the last eight years, take out a credit card from the bank of china, in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion
for the first 42 presidents, number 43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so we now have over $9 trillion of debt we have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman and child. that's irresponsible. that's unpatriotic. >> sean: $4 trillion, his lonesome? you've given us $6 trillion. by the way, that $4 trillion was in eight years, not four. unpatriotic? that was when the debt was only $9 trillion. nowadays we're looking at $16.3 trillion. thanks to the tax and spend agenda of president obama there's no end in sight. if he's serious about tackling the debt, he'd be talking about reining in spending, but he's hell-bent on one thing, raising your taxes. by the way, don't dare thing for one minute, or believe the hype, that this is only going to affect the so-called rich. this white house is willing to put any and all tax breaks on
the table, including letting the payroll tax cut expire. that would move would affect all americans. watch this. >> there are many tax provisions that are expiring at the end of the year, and the president has said that the payroll tax cut, among others, should be on the table. you look at a permanent extension of the middle class tax cuts, the economic effects are different. >> sean: if the payroll tax cut is on the chopping block, nothing is safe. all americans, regardless of how much money you make, you'll be affected. joining us to give us the republicans' view on some of the things, somebody made headlines recently when he appeared to distance himself from a longstanding pledge to oppose efforts to raise taxes, and that's republican senator chambliss. >> good to be with you, sean. >> sean: grover norquist, americans for tax reform, you signed a pledge when you first
ran for office, saying you wouldn't raise taxes or revenue, and said, well, i care more about this country i do about a 20-year pledge. you've taken heat for this. i want to give you a chance to explain. >> my difference with grover, it's pretty simple, the simpson-bowles plan that came out that said we're going to address the long-term debt of this country, recommended that you eliminate all tax credits and tax inclusions in a major tax reform package. the gang of six that i was a part of, still a part of, followed that recommendation. we think you ought to eliminate all of that. that will generate about $1.2 trillion in revenue. not new taxes. revenue. then you decide whether you're going to add the mortgage interest deduction, charitable deduction, other things back in there. so the question is, what do you do with that revenue that's been generated? we owe $16 trillion. i think that you got to pay part of that revenue toward that debt
just like every single american that owns a home pays part of their monthly revenue toward their mortgage debt. it's exactly the same thing. the problem that grover and i have, he says if you do that, that's a tax increase, because the rest of it is going to go to lowering tax rates, and that's not 100% going to lowering tax rates. >> sean: if you're talking about $1.1 trillion or $1.2 trillion in revenue, that's raising taxes. people will pay more. when people pay more -- >> no. >> sean: they're not going to pay more? >> no. i mean, sean, what we do is we lower rates. you lower rates commensurate with the amount of revenue that you take in with the exception of taking some of that money and applying it to your debt. bowles-simpson reduced the number brackets from six to three. 22 to 29 is the lowest and
highest brackets. everybody will be paying at a lower rate. the highest rate today is 35%. the lowest rate 10-15%. >> sean: this math doesn't add up in all honesty here. look, i understand where the government is. i'm very concerned. this is the first generation where americans are saddling their kids with unsustainable debt. >> exactly. >> sean: we've got to get off the track. just as a conservative, i believe in economic growth. i think government spends too much money. but if you're saying the government's going to take in $1.1 trillion more through tax reform, eliminating deductions, but not increasing the tax rates, but lowering them, you're still getting more money, and it's not through growth, so that means people are paying more, right? >> no. the money is not coming to the government. the money is coming in to be used to lower the rates as well as pay down the debt, sean. you're exactly right about economic growth. and you just look at what's happened in the last year. we've had just a very slight
uptick in economic growth. we've seen about a $350 billion revenue increase. the problem is, this administration is spending that money instead of applying it to the debt. can you imagine what kind of economic growth we would see if we had real meaningful corporate tax reform? >> sean: this is where i turn to the president. first of all, he didn't lead with the grand bargain the last time. and bob woodward wrote a detailed book about the whole experience. more important thing here is that the republicans are saying, all right, we will go for increases in revenue. i don't want to parse terms. it's not a tax increase technical clear, but if you're taking in more revenue, it's not from growth, people are paying more, they're paying more money to the government. the president and the democrats, they will not -- dick durbin, harry reid, nancy pelosi, they're saying no to entitlement
reform. if we don't get entitlement reform, it's a bad thing. don't you see it that way? >> two things the president is talking i don't see. one is increasing tax rates on individual taxpayers. that's not going to fly. i've never supported a tax increase rate-wise and i'm not going to. secondly, we're not going to discuss revenues until they're willing to put entitlement reform on the table. entitlement reform is tough for republicans, because it's valuable programs we're talking about, but they're sacrosanct for the democrats. you can't have everything you want. it's hunt on th incumbent on tht to come forward and say we'll put entitlements on the table in a big way, and he's not doing that. i was disappointed to hear my
colleagues in the senate say yesterday that, well, you know, you give us the revenues, and then we'll talk about entitlement reform later. ain't going to happen. ain't going there. >> sean: some democrats have said the republicans will get the blame if the fiscal cliff hits january 1st, and everybody will lose the bush tax cuts. so that will be a tax increase. then they'll blame the republicans, so they want to use it to their advantage politically. and they get the defense cuts through sequestration that they so desire. isn't the real danger, the impact it has on the economy, throws us back into a recession by taking this money out of the economy? >> everybody remembers very well the ugly process we went through in august of 2011 in raising the debt ceiling, and what happened immediately around the raising of that debt ceiling. we saw the stock markets crash. let me tell you if we go off
this fiscal cliff -- and i put the blame squarely on the president. he's been awol on this issue for the last three years. now he's coming in and waving a flag, trying to take the glory, put the burden on republicans. republicans have been willing to negotiate. if he doesn't come forward and provide real leadership, we go off the cliff, the economic disaster that we're going to see is going to be squarely on the shoulders of this president. >> sean: i would like to adopt something like the mac penny plan. cut one penny out of every dollar washington spends, and we move to a balanced budget. with baseline budgeting, you have increases every year. can you ever get rid of baseline budgeting? >> if any corporation in america operated the way the country does, they'd be broke in 90 days. it's a disaster. >> sean: but they don't have the ability to print more money. senator, thanks. >> always a pleasure, sean. >> sean: coming up, reaction to my interview with senator
chambliss. later an egyptian court sentences seven christians to death for their alleged role in that alleged islamic youtube video. we'll check in with michelle malkin on this growing intolerance and much more tonight on "hannity." oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purche, everday! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great sinesses deserve great rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice.
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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." moments ago you heard from republican senator saksby chambliss, and with more on predictions for what happens with this fiscal cliff, we have monica crowley and sandra smith. congressman cole says what do we care if we raise taxes on the 2%. seems like the movement is all in one direction. nobody is saying cut the size and scope of the government. >> that's right. president obama for at least two years now, maybe longer, has always been talking about a balanced approach to t deficit. when he talks about balanced
approach, he means tax revenue and cutting spending, however the only part of the conversation we're having is about tax revenue. no conversation whatsoever about the spending part of this equation. that's because he has no intention of cutting spending. >> sean: senator chambliss is clear, it's increasing revenue, getting more money from the american taxpayer. isn't that a tax? >> yes. what they fail to see or don't want to see or acknowledge this country doesn't have a revenue problem. there's plenty of revenue coming into the treasury. remember the "t" in tea party stands for tax enough already. we have a severe spending problem. before barack obama became president, sean, federal government spending was about 18%, 19% of gdp. barack obama and the democrats have pushed it up to 24% to 25%. >> we're talking about spending more money to artificially prop up the markets.
the problem is, sean, republicans are using the word revenue rather than tax hikes. the national conversation is not about what are we going to do with this horrible, awful, driving us into the ground spending problem in this country right now, we're just talk being revenues. when mitt romney was talking about revenues, he was talking about growing the economy and putting people back to work. we're merely talking about spreading the wealth around this country. it's been shown in history, sean, it doesn't work. >> sean: the attitude we see here is unprecedented in american history in terms of on an annual basis, trillion dollars deficits, we'll leave our kids worse off than we found the country. i call it fiscal selfishness. where is the morality of not spending more than you take in and robbing from your kids? >> that's been a case for a long time. and i fault a lot of republicans for this. certainly democrats have put these things on steroids in terms of spending. but enough republicans over decades have gone down the road of big government, big spending
big entitlements, compassionate conservism. >> senator, you follow the economy every day. before the election, unemployment, 2013, is going to be over 9%. >> uh-huh. >> sean: they went back in a recession, you got other countries falling into a recession, we have anemic growth at best. is it likely we hit a recession? >> absolutely. particularly if we fall off the fiscal cliff. the united states, the largest economy in the world, but yet we have the largest debt in the world. that's why the conversation needs to go to spending. what are we doing with all this money? unemployment, skyrocketing at 9%, but a slow-down in our gdp. >> sean: the real cliff is what you're saying, down the road, when it's $20 trillion in debt, when it's not $16 trillion. >> doesn't matter. say we put in place revenue to come in to the door, what are we going to do with it? >> sean: they've already spent
it. >> that's so true. it's already spent. >> anytime they raise more taxes, more revenue coming in, they spend it. the beast of government is ravenous. they never cut back. you're exactly right, sean, the real fiscal cliff is when the laws of economics kick in, which they will inevitably do, they have to do, because it can't go on like this. you see the results of hitting the wall in greece, in spain, i3 italy. it will happen here. unlike the european countries, there's nobody to bail us out. >> sean: how much debt could we realistically take on before the bond markets abandon us? >> we're already there. >> sean: so the very people, they voted for barack obama, they voted for more of the same, didn't listen to the arguments we were making, it was a close election, but not close enough, so they're going to be -- the people that he appealed to with class warfare, aren't they the ones most likely to get hurt? >> listen, absolutely. and warren buffett came out today and said,ing hey, he
thinks it will a boost for the morale of the middle class. with all due respect to warren buffett, a boost to the middle-class is raising tax rates on the rich? >> sean: why don't they give it to the government if they think it's a moral imperative? >> i don't know what he's trying to drive in this country right now. businesses are unwilling to spend, capital expenditures are down, people are unwilling to hire. the level of uncertainty in this country is downright scary. >> that's right. it's not going away anywhere soon. we're changing the face of america, and so now it's about the equality of outcome, that we need to level and equalize everybody. that's what occupy wall street is all about. that's what president obama is all about. >> sean: one analogy, almost like you have two parents representing the two parties. one party says you can play all the xbox you want, endless tv,
you don't have to do your homework. the republican party says we got to balance your budget, eat your spinach and broccoli, turn off the tv and do your homework. if i'm a kid, i want the xbox. >> that's right. >> in obama's final term, we have to know how he'll define success. maybe that doesn't bother him. >> i think we already know. it's not good. >> i like broccoli. >> so do i. spinach too. >> sean: coming up, radicalism on the rise in the middle east, north africa. now seven christians are sentenced to death in egypt for their alleged involvement in that now infamous youtube video. we'll check in with michelle malkin. and rhetoric you've not heard before, and nobody in the media has ever played for you. that's coming up tonight.
z. >> sean: as we enter into the christmas season there's brand-new evidence that christians are under attack by muslim extremists. here's why. earlier today an egyptian court sentenced seven egyptian christians and a florida-based pastor to death for their roles in the amateur and controversial youtube video, "the innocence of muslims." while the eight who were convicted will likely never have to face the sentence, this points to a much larger problem and highlights the blatant lack of tolerance, the total disregard for free speech by radical islamists. joining with me reaction fox news contributor and author of best-selling book "the culture of corruption," michelle malkin. the pro-democracy protesters here, in tahrir square, we don't see as much coverage of this
going on tonight, going on for a number of days. they're asking in the square, why is the united states backing the wrong side? why is the obama state department -- why did they say earlier today, this guy's not a dictator? can you explain that? >> ineptitude on the part of the state department, and it's a virus that's infected our state department for years, whether it's a republican or democratic administration. foggy bottom, called that for a reason. the reason why you're not seeing these protests -- and believe me these young pro-freedom, pro-democracy activists are as loud as ever on social media, but you don't see them on the mainstream news because they don't fit the narrative of these self-appointed progressives who
supposedly champion democracy, but now are looking the other way. of course at the state department, are tamping it down, speaking in double talk while there's so much subjectation, reports of brutal mauls, sexual assaults of female demonstrators, but you don't hear about that, and you don't hear about the systemic persecution of christians that has been on the rise since the vaunted arab spring. >> sean: all of the things you're saying are dead-on accurate, and the obama administration elevated president morsi, supporting hamas during this recent dust-up with israel. >> yes. >> sean: it begs the question, are the protesters right? is barack obama backing an egyptian dictator, a radical islamist? >> yes. well, let me borrow a favorite
phrase of the liberals. silence is complicity. what's happening here. the silence from this administration about christian persecution, the silence about the sentencing to death of these coptic christians over the stupid video, their silence about the suppression of free speech that continues in egypt, is damning, and it is an indictment of this administration for continuing to back what these democracy movements activists are calling the new pharaoh. >> sean: well, that's interesting, because drudge had an interesting piece up on his site. is morsi about to turn egypt into the new iran? >> well, look, if you want to know what the blueprint for an islamic califate wit look at egt
now. this is exactly playing into the hands of the muslim brotherhood. >> sean: why doesn't the administration see the danger? this is a muslim brotherhood guy, we're giving them billions of treatments, hillary treats him, gives him gravitas, and meanwhile he's turning into a dictator by our very eyes, and there's utter silence. why do they not see the danger that he's a radical islamist that that possesse poses to thee world? >> they see it. >> sean: they see it? >> of course they do. this goes back to the idiocy of susan rice, hillary clinton, but
back to barack obama himself. i will never forget the article he wrote after 9/11 where he tried to excuse islamic violence and islamic terrorism after the terrorist attacks here on american soil by shill this pablum that spread this. morsi was were educated right here in the west. they know exactly what they're doing. they're playing america's leaders for fools. >> sean: michelle malkin thanks for that insightful report. coming up, crazy left wing rhetoric hits new lows on talk radio as they talk about beheading people that are part of the tea party movement. we'll give it the media mash treatment and run through the most offensive examples. do you want your kids disavowing
their americanness, or maybe their female or maleness or whiteness? the crazy education your college kids are receiving, of course on your dime, all around the country, straight ahead. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] they are a glowing example of what it means to be the best. and at this special time of year, they shine even brighter. come to the winter event and get the mercedes-benz you've always wished for, now for an exceptional price. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer lease a 2013 glk350 for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. at your local you know it can be hard to lbreathe, and how that feels.e, copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open for 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups.
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the hateful rhetoric. we go through the most outrageous material with the one and only brian maloney. sir, how are you? >> great, sean. thanks for having me on again. >> sean: i knew mike milloy in my early radio days in atlanta. i remember the outrageous things that he said then. since then he goes a little over the edge, teetering now, as he's talking about beheading tea party members. listen to this. right. >> these tea bag bastards, i wish they would all go away. or like in passover, i wish there was an angel of the order that would pass over, instead of killing the first born in all the households of egypt, wipe out all the tea baggers, you know, with a sword, just like that. lop their heads off.
>> sean: behead those tea bagger bastards as he says. behead them, make them go away. >> isn't he saying what a lot of other progressives think? i don't think they want to work with us, to be a part of any collision, reaching across the aisle. i think they want us gone. there's no tolerance on that side of the aisle. >> sean: what if rush limbaugh said that about any -- or sean hannity? what if we said about that any liberal? what would happen? >> there would be a media firestorm, hearing about for it weeks. they're trying to pull you guys off the air. we're not trying to pull them off the air. we're a opposed to hate speech. >> sean: it's important people see the double standard. for those of us that realize barack obama owns the economy, the deficit, owns everything, and as things get worse you can blame him for his failed policies. but if they're going to go back, in this case tom hartman is
going to blame ronald reagan -- well, there's never any hope of not blaming george bush. listen to this. >> black friday in reality is a symptom of the plight that 30 years of reaganomics brought to america. we've been steadily, the last 30 years, watching the destruction of organized labor, labor unions. we have black friday today because the wealthy elite have strangled their workers for 32 years. ever since ronald reagan's election. >> sean: forget those eight years of clinton and four years of obama, it's reagan's fault. it's reagan's fault that on black friday people are killing themselves at victoria's secret. >> they're going after capitalism. the kids are being taught this stuff in school. it really is incredible. the crisis of capitalism. that's really what they're after. that's a core issue.
>> sean: yeah, but there's a common theme, that all the troubles in the world are because of capitalism, because of conservatives, because of the few republican presidents that we've been able to squeeze in there over the years. al sharpton, barack obama's been president four years, but he's blaming republicans for the 14.5% unemployment rate that currently exists in the african american community. listen to this. >> blacks in particular are disproportionately in the public sector. one of the reasons those jobs have gone down, or have remained down, is, one, the republicans are cutting a lot of the agencies where we are the employees of government, jobs, government employees, and a lot of those jobs go to governors and mayors who also have had cutbacks. >> sean: what government agency has cut? >> exactly, exactly.
>> sean: tell me one agency that's been cut. >> it's a tiny glimpse into sharpton's world of disinformation and smears and lies. this is what he does every day on his show. every day. >> sean: what? he just makes it up? >> yeah. it's conspiracy theory radio. you know, look at the election outcome. this stuff wins elections. >> sean: charles ogletree was on his program, and everybody that dares to disagree with susan rice, you can predict what this is going to say. >> we have to look at global policy, because it influences what we can do here. if you look at the one example, i'm going to talk about the attack on susan rice, african american woman, who has played a vital role in the international affairs, a rhodes scholar, terrific graduate, has done great work. then she's being called incompetent. people in the black caucus, other folks are saying, wait a minute, are you trying to stop an african american woman from becoming the first democrat to be the secretary of state? we're not going to allow that
happen. we didn't allow that to happen when people tried to stop condoleezza rice, an african american republican woman. so i think politics are becoming much more global. >> sean: horrible things have been said about republican women and african american conservatives for years by liberals, but if you dare to criticize susan rice, who did not tell us the truth, this is based on race or war on women. >> right. they're deflecting away from the libya issue. when did they defend condi rise? i missed that show. when were they out campaigning for utah? i missed that. there's dozens more clips, too,. >> sean: thank you, brian maloney. >> thank you, sean. >> sean: coming up, you want to know what the institutions of higher learning around the country are teaching your children? one university is asking students to disavow their
americanness. we'll have more on what your hard-earned money is paying for. and then -- >> you met president obama back in 2008. i know you don't like to get into politics, just say you don't want to answer if you don't want to answer, but what do you think of how he's governed? pastor rick warren answers that question and more. ♪ [ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we understand that commitment. and always have. so does aarp, an organization serving the needs of americans 50 and over for generations.
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again. we're now seeing liberal ideologies being pedaled at colleges and universities across the country in an attempt to indoctrinate students with certain ideas. according to the college fix, a political science class at butler university in indianapolis is asking students to, quote, write and speak in a way that does not assume americaness, whiteness, maleness, heterosexuals sexuality, middle class status, etc., to be the norm. if that's not enough, a normal community college was forced to reverse its ban on the word christmas after a student group hosted a charity christmas tree sale and legally questioned the school's action. penny, you're the liberal here. so we have to, quote -- why you laughing? >> because that's what you always categorize me as "the
liberal." >> sean: you're a liberal democrat. why should you be ashamed of that? >> i'm very proud of it. >> sean: why are they asking students to not assume their -- what does it mean not to assume your americaness? >> i'm having a hard time, too, understanding what exactly their purpose is other than to say, you know, what we saw during the last election, we're a more diverse america we have probably at anytime, but yet we're still continuing to see this intolerance of each other, over facebook, twitter. >> sean: these are kids. >> understood. >> sean: they're students. they're susceptible to professors and need as, so they have to regurgitate this nonsense. is being male bad, white is bad, het toheterosexual is bad?
what's the purpose here? >> the professor who put this into her syllabus, which is bullying in the first place, she's propagandizing her students for the last 30 years. we've seen the left do this under the guise of inclusiveness. it's inclusive unless you're female, american, middle class. i went to a very label university write experienced this myself. >> sean: where did you go? >> the university of arizona. and they tried to crowd out any -- not only form of traditional ideology, conservative ideology, and also any ideology that does not fit with their leftest propaganda they force on to the students in classes and threaten they won't pass the class unless they adhere to it. >> sean: penny, the point is, i'm proud of america. america has paid a very heavy
price around the world for freedom. we shed our blood. we pay the financial burden. people have been injured for the cause of human liberty, human dignity, human rights. and why don't they teach that? they could talk about america's strengths and weaknesses? no country is perfect. we're not perfect. but we do have a pretty good history of righting wrongs, correcting injustices. doesn't this seem off? shouldn't we be teaching real history? >> this is one professor and one syllabus, so we can't say it's illustrative of the entire butler university. i went to baylor university, and we had the reverse, where we had policies in place that you could only be a baptist if you were going to actually teach. i mean, that was actually rescinded. so you do have intolerance on both sides. >> sean: but the common notion is, for whatever reason, katie,
the '60s hippies social i'd idealogues have gravitated to our campuses. >> this isn't one professor at butler university, but a national movement that the left has been pushing called the national inclusive is excellence initiative. ann coulter went to speak at cal poly out in california, and this board mccai complained to e university, saying she wasn't inclusive enough, and tried to get her banned from campus. it's been going on for years. it hasn't been an isolated incident. it hasn't been an isolated incident since the 1960s that liberal professors want different points of views. >> when i was at baylor, they did not want jimmy carter to commotocome on the campus.
>> it's 20 to 1. >> sean: conservatives are usually the ones discriminated against. you're not denying that. >> to say let us walk in somebody else's shoes, that is -- >> sean: all right. next time you come on the program i want you to speak in a way that did not expose your liberalness, your femaleness, your democraticness. >> let me speak in a way thatme. makes me not white, not middle-class. all of that. >> sean: coming up, pastor rick warren gets political, grading the performance of president barack obama. plus, 10 years since he released the best-selling book "the purpose driven life," and a decade later the message is as strong as ever. pastor warren coming up next. i always wait until the last minute.
>> sean: pastor rick warren is considered to be one of the most influential religious leaders in the country. his book "the purpose driven life" has been read by more than 60 million people worldwide, currently being re-released to celebrate its tenth anniversary. i sat down with the pastor to share his book and talk about breaking ball. author of "the purpose driven life," rick warren. how are you? >> fine, sean.
it's been a long time. >> "the purpose driven life" was read by -- >> 20% of america. >> sean: and you gave 90% of the proceeds to charity? >> yes. >> sean: that's rare. it's usually the opposite way. >> i could have gone gone out and bought an island, have people serve me drinks with little umbrellas in them for the rest of my life, but when you write a book, it's not about you, the money is not for you either. >> sean: i'm not going to spend a lot of time on politics. five years ago, phi said to you, after 30-some-odd states, california twice voted against gay marriage, but this year it changed. >> uh-huh. >> sean: would you have thought five years ago that would happen? woukd you have thought in five years colorado would legalize marijuana for recreational use, and what does it tell you about american society? some people think this is evidence that america is morally
is changing, and the culture is shifting and changing. >> there's no doubt about it. each generation the morals do shift and change. we can see that in a lot of different areas. a lot of it also has to do with how things are framed. you see, if you take an issue and frame it as a rights issue, everybody believes in free rights. okay? honestly i think what we have to look at is are we looking to the government to bring moral recovery to the nation? the answer is you better not. that's never happened. it doesn't happen. if there's going to be a moral recovery in america, it's not going to happen by laws. i actually thought that you could change people's behavior by making laws, i'd become a politician. >> sean: thomas payne in "common sense" said government is a necessary evil, in the worst state an intolerable one."
said that the guides of conscious were obeyed there would be no need for any other lawmaker. our founders and framers adopted limited government. that's changed. >> because trust has gone down. it's true in a marriage, in a government, in our nation. the greater the trust, the fewer rules you need. the less trust you have, the more you start having to say, let's make a law for that one, for that one. what happens, like in an organization, or a corporation, somebody gets off base, so they make a law to rein it in, and 90% of the other people weren't even going to bother them, but they're hindered by the law. you get more and more regulations for the few people. >> sean: you don't seem concerned to me. i would have thought you might have been. for example, i knew jerry falwell, the moral majority. >> yeah. >> sean: i would have thought fa you would be more concerned that america has lost touch in some
ways. >> absolutely i do believe that. i absolutely do believe that. in fact, a jewish philosopher of a previous generation called it the cut flower syndrome. what it is is, flowers are beautiful, but if you cut them, you put them in a vase, they're going to stay beautiful for a period of time, but eventually they're going to fade, because you cut them off from the roots. as america is cut off from its moral and spiritual and ethical roots, we're now seeing the flower fades. i actually had a debate with this in people's halls in tiamen square in. you want the economic success of the west without the moral and ethical under pinnings. capitalism works because there's a judeo-christian basis, because it says take care of people with integrity. if you take that out, you get what happened in russia.
>> sean: for example, if somebody is a virgin till they're married they're considered odd. people in greater numbers live together. >> right. >> sean: abortion on demand is settled, at least according to the polls -- you add gay marriage, drug legalization. you're a pastor. those are things you disagree with, right? >> absolutely i disagree with. what i don't agree with is that the way to stop them is law. i tell you why. because by the time something gets into the water, it's already downstream. politics is always downstream from culture. when you start making a law to stop this, stop that, it's already in the culture. >> sean: you met president obama back in 2008. i know you don't like to get in politics. just say you don't want to answer if you don't want to answer. what do you think of him, how he's governed? >> i think every lear